This week we were joined by Otha Smith Founder of Tetegram to break down the Cannabis App that is helping consumers make better purchasing decisions. We discuss Helping consumers select the right Cannabis Product How documenting product-specific characteristics will change our buying behavior Data, trends, terpenes and so much more Tetragram is a mobile platform positioned to be the “Yelp of Cannabis” by empowering cannabis and CBD consumers with the ability to Track, Rate and Share their personal experiences with cannabis with others. In addition, we partner with dispensaries, cultivators, and brands to help them tell their product's story and connect directly with consumers. https://tetragramapp.com , Facebook, Instagram, Twitter This show is presented to by 8th Revolution: At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev) we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in regard to the hemp & cannabis industry. Our forward-thinking team can diagnose, analyze & optimize every detailed nuance of your company to keep your business safe, smart, and profitable. Our flexibility and experience combined with ongoing research create unique insights into how to best grow your market share. Contact us directly at info@8threv.com Follow Bryan on Twitter Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney 8th Revolution , Follow The Dime on Twitter, Follow The Dime on Instagram
This week we were joined by Otha Smith Founder of Tetegram to break down the Cannabis App that is helping consumers make better purchasing decisions.
We discuss
Tetragram is a mobile platform positioned to be the “Yelp of Cannabis” by empowering cannabis and CBD consumers with the ability to Track, Rate and Share their personal experiences with cannabis with others. In addition, we partner with dispensaries, cultivators, and brands to help them tell their product's story and connect directly with consumers.
https://tetragramapp.com , Facebook, Instagram, Twitter
This show is presented to by 8th Revolution: At Eighth Revolution (8th Rev) we provide services from capital to cannabinoid and everything in between in regard to the hemp & cannabis industry. Our forward-thinking team can diagnose, analyze & optimize every detailed nuance of your company to keep your business safe, smart, and profitable. Our flexibility and experience combined with ongoing research create unique insights into how to best grow your market share. Contact us directly at info@8threv.com Follow Bryan on Twitter Kellan Finney: @Kellan_Finney
8th Revolution , Follow The Dime on Twitter, Follow The Dime on Instagram
What's up guys. Welcome back to another episode of the dime I'm Brian Fields. And with me, it's always says Carolyn Finney. And this week we've got a very special guest Otis Smith, founder and CEO of Tetra Graham ova. Thanks for taking the time. How are you doing today?
Not bad. Not bad. Happy to be here.
Doing well, Kevin, how are you doing? I'm
doing, I'm doing well, enjoying the snow day out here in Colorado and excited to talk to another east coaster.
How are you? That's right. And I'm glad we don't need to have to get it on the record. Another east coaster in the building. Oh, to what state are you located in for?
So I'm located in Maryland, right outside of Washington, DC. So born and raised.
Let's do it. So Arthur, before we dive into some of the topics today, I'd love for our listeners to give a little background about you and how you got into the.
Sure. Yeah. So I grew up, like I said in Maryland grew up in a very rural part of Maryland actually, which is, I didn't find out too later in life that it was notorious for growing cannabis.
So that was cool. But yeah, so I came up through the ranks, graduated. From Bowie state university with a degree in marketing and then went to go start my first company, which was a detailing company. So that company actually, I started in high school and put myself through college, which was really nice, not no student debt here.
And then unfortunately in 2008 happened, I ended up closing that. And then went to go work for constellation energy. And so for those that don't know, constellation energy is one of the largest utility providers in the country. So I started off in the renewable space, selling solar when I was really hot and then, grew through the ranks and ended up selling electric and gas commodities in deregulated states on the east coast.
Great job learned a lot. And then Started seeing the advancement of cannabis across the country. And I've always been a fan. And as I said, I grew up in an area that was notorious for it. Like my best friend in high school actually dropped out of high school to follow the grateful dead.
And I said, Hey, that kinda tells you like with fabric of people I grew up there. And, funny enough, his dad was a secret service agent too. So he was like, what the hell is my kid doing? But yeah saw the cannabis industry and just jumped into it headfirst and it's been a great ride in terms of what we built with touch a gram and what we're providing to the industry,
tell us the origin story, where did the idea come up with?
And before that, was this something that you had thought about prior or something that kind of sparked your interest when you found a knee and.
Yeah. What got me into this industry and building was really through my own personal need. In 2006, I was involved in a pretty tragic car accident where I nearly lost my life.
I was rejected from the will for owned about a hundred feet, landed on my head. And it was pronounced actually dead on the scene. Wow. But luckily there was a friend of mine who was in the car with me. She walked away with no issues bruising and so forth. But she was going to school at John Hopkins to become a doctor like she is today.
And so she's the one that revived me. And so the helicopter arrived and I actually just got my hair cut so you can see how big the scar is. You're talking about 54 staples, man. So quite the journey, once I got out of the hospital, I was prescribed opioids and we all know how damaging and threatening to a person's life.
Those can be. So I started to just get back involved in cannabis and, once Maryland opened up their medical program, I jumped at the opportunity to get my card and a little egotistical walked in their lives. What do they know about weed? I know everything about cannabis. And that was just not the case.
I was learned about terpene the cannabinoids. And I was like, this is stuff you don't hear from your street dealer. It's just I got fire or I got Reggie and that's about it. I realized that there was a lot to learn. And as, as I started this experimenting and talking to other people, every dispensary or.
Clinical director or customer I talked to was like, you got to keep a journal, dude. It's the only way you're going to keep track of all these products that you're trying. And how are you going to remember which ones you liked and which ones you didn't. And so I basically took that concept and say, yeah, I see the benefit of that.
And I said I can do something better and create, touch a grant, which is a mobile app. So it gives people the ability to document their experience through their phone. Because everything we do is through our phone and then the data that we collect can really just help, not only the consumer understand, not what product, but what terpenes and cannabinoids are working best, but also it has helps the industry understand the impact of these products in the marketplace.
Yeah, I think that's so important. I really want you to expand more about the app and I've been on it and I seen the intuitiveness and the importance of it because. As we've talked about in this podcast, it is so challenging for consumers to walk into a dispensary and to find a product that they like.
But even more challenging when they come back in, if it's in a different location or different budtender to find something similar. So having a resource like Tetra Graham, to be able to provide that valuable insights and saying here's the items that I liked, how do I find something similar, so important on that journey.
So I guess going through the stages, right? What did the MVP look like when you first built it? And then take us from the MVP to where we are now?
Yeah. When we first built that we were looking around and said, so what data do we want to provide customers with the ability to enter into the product into the system?
Because as you guys know of any app, you don't want to make it a homework assignment because then it's this is not fun. I don't want to put this stuff in here. So with our MVP, we just wanted to address the most critical components of logging your experience. The MVP that we have today, We give you the consumer has the ability to enter in what product they purchase.
And then when, after Diana wrote what product they purchased, we really steer them to say what terpenes and cannabinoids consists of that product. So once they enter in that information, then we allow them to say, what dispensary did you buy it from? Which is very important because, through my process, when I was.
Product. And I found one that I liked, even within the same state, if I went 20 minutes down the street to another dispensary, they might not have that product. And we knew that was going to be an important field for people to select where did I make that purchase? And then very importantly, we knew that we had to give people the ability to drill down in terms of.
How do they consume that product? If it was inhalation, did you use a ball? Did you use a joint and then that, so category fills into, so what form did the product come in? Was it flour? Was it wax? Because as we know if I use it. Opposed to a bong, I'm going to have a completely different experience.
If I use flour, as opposed to shatter again, I'm gonna have a completely different experience. So giving people the ability to drill down through that is awesome. And then they can put in like, how many hits did I take? If it's orally or topically, we give them the ability to say, was that a gummy?
And if it was how many milligrams did you write? And then once they make that selection, then they can say, what condition are you using? The treat this using cannabis for? And we definitely wanted to make it open architecture in the sense that the consumer is always driving the experience.
So we do provide them with some default symptoms for them to choose from. But at the end of the day, we still get that customer, the ability to interact with. And luckily everything's still been PG 13 so far, which is nice. But after they make that selection, then they can rate that product. How effective was it?
How long did it last? What was the flavor of it? And they could include pictures too, because one of the things that I did and I saw a lot of people do was they would actually keep the label or the jar of the product that they liked. And especially if it was a product they didn't like.
So I remember right. That product right there. Don't buy that again. So we definitely wanted to give people the ability to take pictures and include that into the platform as well. And then after they do that, then they can write whatever. And I'll be honest, like I've seen some of these notes be paragraphs long in terms of the way people are just describing the effects of these products.
So it's always cool to watch. And then, they hit same session and they're able to either keep that session exclusive to themselves or they can share it anonymously across the platform. And that's something that was always dear to my heart in the MVP is to give people the ability to share.
Dances with other people anonymously. I think cannabis is by far the most communal plant in the world, rarely is stolen smoking by themselves or just enjoying an edible or anything by themselves. There's always somewhere where someone else is around and we're enjoying it together.
And so given that this is an industry where there's so much status. Unknown in terms of the effects. We knew that was going to be important in the MVP to allow people to share those reviews anonymously. So that five go into a dispensary and I see a product that catches my eye. I can go to touch a gram and see if someone's written a review about it.
And then if they have great, then that gives me a little bit more ammunition to decide whether or not I should make that purchase. Or if I'm looking at it from. Your perspective as well. So it's I gotta be honest, man. Like it's scaled dramatically. Like we built this and we put it out going July 10th, 20, 20.
So at the height of COVID and I was just like, do we put it out or do we keep it and wait till this blows over. And, after several conversations with other people and especially the medical community, they were like open now is the best time to launch it because people are more. Than ever before about their health.
And over the course of what's it been a year and a half touch, your gram is now scaled to being promoted in more than 137 dispensary locations across the country. That's awesome. Yeah. So it's been remarkable and we haven't put a dime into advertising or marketing. The product is just all been through.
You're our dispensary partners, medical professionals, and so forth. They're really seeing the value in this.
Has it been just insanely impactful for medical patients to be able to have this record and go back to doctors and be like, this is what I've been using. And then they can work together in some of those like, experiences that they're having from certain products.
Have you found that from conversations with some
of the. Oh, absolutely kill it. That's one of the things that's, being an entrepreneur isn't easy. And then you add until it, and it's like a double whammy. But that's one of the things that's keep keeps me and my team motivated is we get emails or people who hit us up on IgE and they're like, App has helped me so much or has helped my father understand what products are working more effectively because let's face it.
Like cannabis is not cheap. And I know I spent thousands of dollars in order to find the right product, dosing amount, form for it to come in. And so we're able to expedite that process for other people. That makes it makes me incredibly happy. We get calls about when's, this guy just had an email yesterday.
When are you bringing this to Norway? When are you bringing us to Brazil? This is nuts, man. That's so cool.
Yeah, it's
wild. Yeah. I when that guy hit me up about Norway, I was like, oh my God, we're going into Nashville. Let me ship you some swag. And I shipped them like a t-shirt and some rolling trays, all types of gray and branded, and the damn packaging costs more than the swag.
It was like $70 ship shipping. I'm like, we're doing it.
Love it.
The community aspect is just so important. And especially from here from an east coast standpoint where, my parents, I, that's why I think about it. And exactly like you said, the products that they get now they have no idea what they're consuming.
Someone drops it off and then he's oh, it's an indigo sativa. And that's how my parents have identified the type of products they're getting. But when they can go into a dispensary, the strain name is going to be a problem for them because they'll lean on that as the type of, I want the gorillas or the cookies and that's great, but if they don't have that.
Then what, and now they've got to make a blind guess. And I know you've put a lot of thought into that process and I think your app solves a really big problem and a really big need for the industry of helping bridge the gap from an educational standpoint.
Yeah. A hundred percent. One of the core things about Tetra gram is, so we have a tagline track rate empower, and we live by that because if you keep track of what you're using.
You rate the effectiveness of it. It's going to empower you at the end of the day, because you're going to know more. And the same thing. If you take that and you just balloon it into this whole community, this industry, that's what we're doing. Everyone needs to keep track and rate it and then share it so that we can learn from each other.
And. It's totally educational tool. Like a, there was a report that came out a couple of months ago. I'm sure you guys saw it where it was like 45% of people do not feel confident that their doctor knows enough about cannabis to make a recommendation. And so we can change that by providing these physicians with the data that they need so they can be more consultative with their patients.
And the last thing I want or anybody wants for that matter is my mom, your mom, to go into a dispensary and say, Hey, I got. Chronic joint pain. And next day, they're leaving out with RSO. It's whoa, it's that's not the answer here because chances are my mom was going to have a negative experience and she's going to tell 10, 15 other people about it.
And then the stigma, the negative stigma of cannabis stays alive.
Yeah that multiplies pretty quickly, especially with the women demographic. They're pretty good at spreading that bad information. So continuing on like terpenes and cannabinoids, one of the challenges that we found so far is that when people walk into a dispensary, there's so many pieces of the puzzle, right?
When asking a question, I want an edible, I want flour. So from a terpenes and cannabinoids, if they're not available directly at the bud tender level or on the product label, what do you recommend? How does that experience.
It's tough. It was really, I'm really at a loss. When I travel around the country, like I'm fortunate here in Maryland, every product is, it was legislated that every product has to have the terpene and cannabinoid is listed on a product.
I've become very spoiled to it. And plus, I just don't understand the importance of knowing that information, but, I travel around the country and that's not the case. And I don't know what the. And it really boils down is that simple. We're starting to see some manufacturers start to take the initiative and do it on their own.
And QR codes have, come back from the dead due to COVID. So we're starting to see that being applied to products too, but there's there's no clear cut answer when you don't have that information. You're really making a decision very blind. Very blindly. So it's something that's key to my heart.
And I think with the data that we're collecting and, cause one of the things I'm doing is speaking to these state regulators because they want to understand the impact that these products are being sold. A nurse state is having on that population. Let's drive that even further, yeah, you like the data that we're collecting and providing now, but we can provide so much more robust data if you've made it so that, that terpene and cannabinoid information what's present, we could draw better conclusion.
Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
No, dive in. I was just going to say, I think the turpines
are probably the most underappreciated aspect of cannabinoids, at least from like a consumer education standpoint. There's just so many states that don't require the Turkey concentrations to be included in the product labels.
I think
it's a lot, right? There's just a lot of different tributes, right? So like I'm not familiar with the quantity of turkeys that are required in Maryland, but I there can be over a hundred different terpenes. And so being able to. Concisely communicate like those concentrations, which some of them are going to be in like less, most of them are in less than a percent.
So you're dealing with 0.2% 0.1%. So and then potentially upwards of 60 different chemicals. So being able to put that in a graph and communicate it in a concise manner on a label is very challenging. Like it is, it's very hard from a marketing perspective. And I just, haven't seen a ton of, I've seen companies take it on the west coast, just on their own fruition.
But they, there is no law mandating, terpene testing requirements, at least in Colorado and in California.
Yeah. Yeah. And in Massachusetts where that's, where I'm at right now if you want to get a terpene testing, it's like an extra 25 bucks and. Yeah, we all know how these companies, no, one's really making money right now, so they want to keep those, that bottom line as thin as possible.
Extra $25 doesn't sound like much, but when you're talking about thousands of products and that stuff starts to add up, but, to your point, Kaelin, like you're exactly right. There are, I think there's over are 200 different cannabinoids, I think we should at least take the initiative.
Highlighting the ones that are most commonly found or every time they have the most substance and lead that way. And I think, like we said, this is all about education. Terpene is by far. I totally agree with you guys is in my opinion, the most fun about aspect, about cannabis, because people are always like, man, that smells funky when you're talking about that, or man that tastes weird, it talking about a terpene, so that's understand it so that we can talk more intelligent about.
Enriched experience. Yeah. The
craziest part about that whole statement is that they're like the forgotten piece of the puzzle where everyone can acknowledge that they smell it and they taste it. But when you ask them what that actually is, they're not really sure. And that's such a driving factor.
The first thing, at least that I've seen, when people get flour, they want to smell it. And then they're wondering, oh my God, that smells amazing. And you're not smelling THC, which I think most people want to believe that they are. But that's gotta be such a wild experience. So when you're talking to these dispensaries and some of these lawmakers, and you're trying to educate them on the importance of tracking this information, is that something that that proves to be challenging in the aspect that they seem unfamiliar with the importance of.
No, it's not foreign to them. A majority of them, they do understand it, but like Kellen said, they were just like how much do we put on a label? How much should we be testing for? And again, I dissolve draw it back to, there's a, there's a top tenders, a top five in any industry. So let's just look at that top five of cannabinoids.
That top five are turpines unless, at least start there. That's where it gets frustrating for me. It's we gotta at least start somewhere. They'll try to a majority of these state regulators once we got it all figured out, then we'll start to move forward. And it's this industry moves too quick to do that.
Turkey. How many turkeys are in. To list in Maryland,
is it tab? So the top ones, so at least 10 both interviews. And I think
there's probably like three that are really critical to, or at least that people have planted a flag in the ground to differentiate Endeca sativa and hybrid is like what, when a loop and near scene and maybe one other, I'm not sure
for me personally.
I wake up every morning, the birds chirping, I got music playing in my head. I don't need anything that is high in pining or alignment. I've been able to drill that in and say those is spring anxiety. And it has given me go gadget. It's so I use more. So the end, because if you will, which are high in myrcene Lenono and better carry awfully that those are sedated qualities and they just gel well with my endocannabinoid system.
Do you think people maybe in the future we'll use the turpines as the product selector when they're walking in versus let's say cannabinoid.
A hundred percent, it will happen. If you look at like certain states, like I found out like Connecticut doesn't allow any product names at all. So if you were to buy a product in Connecticut, you cannot go in there and say, I want blue dream.
You have to go in there and say, I want sativa 2.9, six, whatever. So very bizarre. But they're really, they're using. Not the best approach to guide people to terpenes and cannabinoids, as opposed to this, to, the name of the product, because let's face it. I don't want to smoke anything.
That's called green crack. Come on. It's a hard sell, honestly. Yeah, exactly. Or Chernobyl
hard pass. So let's talk about some of your users. I'm curious to know, since you started, have you seen bigger adoption in certain states as they've come online? Have, can you kind of correlate or share some information?
Yeah. I mean by far, our biggest state is of users is Maryland just because this is our sandbox. So I got my face planted everywhere, but Ohio, Illinois is really big. Massachusetts is really. For us as well. Those are growing and you know what Missouri is actually starting to take off too.
And a lot of that is tied to our dispensary partners. Like cheerly for example, as a big national footprint GTI has a big footprint in Ohio and Illinois. And then we have Verio, which is really big and like New Mexico and so forth. I can't think our partners enough, our dispensary partners for helping us plant this flag and make people aware.
But then it's also, I gotta give a lot of credit to, the medical side of it. So like green health docs, which is a online cannabis medical certification company, they have. A lot of their tentacles, brick and mortars throughout the country. And so that's how I believed a lot of advancement of users in other states as well.
How does the partnership work with the big.
So right now with our MVP is just for one, we're saving them a lot of money on paper. They're no longer making a, these journals or having that expenditure there. And it's a mixed bag, but at the end of the day, like each dispensary that we work with has.
Our display, like a small acrylic display our flyers in the store. And then some dispensary's light cheerleader vastly have our commercial of ours that plays while you're in the store. That's really cool. And then some states have medical directors on staff, and so they're actively recommending touch a grant to customers that they do their consultation.
Yeah. It's selecting the right product is so critical. And if you don't have someone there to handhold you or to make the right informed decision, you could have a really off-putting experience. So Kellen, from your standpoint, I'm curious to know your perspective, obviously being on the west coast and a little more of a mature market.
Obviously the need is slightly different because the consumer is a little more educated, but I still see a ton of value in that. Do you think the adoption of Tetra gram could happen faster as let's say the cannabinoids and the terpenes become more important to. I think it's going to reach like a
critical point, because I think that even in Colorado, right?
Like it's annoying because you walk into any dispensary and even the budtenders and everyone
now have had it drilled into their mind
that THC potency is king, right? So like you're talking about one string or the other and the fallback for every bud tender is always oh, this one actually tested 4% higher.
You know what I mean? And that is absolutely the worst way to be. Educating consumers, but it is literally from a sales perspective. It's the only thing that a lot of these budtenders have found to put a metric on, to measure the difference between this strain and that strain, which it's wrong.
We all know that. And so I think that as these as Tetra gram kind of reaches a critical mass point, it's going to become the standard way. Of choosing products in the future. Because just both of us had it specific
turkeys. Really
don't buy within in any time during the day. And it gets the same way with me and I just, I haven't been able to identify.
And I guarantee it's the same with everyone out there it's that there are certain strains and certain chemicals that really throw your endocannabinoid system off. And if you don't have any measurable metrics to determine that you're just like, oh, it could have been what I ate that day. Who knows maybe 29%.
Is it my thing? Maybe I need a 31% strain. And I think that there's still so much opportunity to change how consumers make their decisions in a dispensary. And I think that it needs to change
because.
People don't go into an alcohol store and buy beer because this beer has 3% more alcohol in
it.
You know what I mean?
That's just everyone is not drinking ever clear. It's just,
That's a great analogy, man. You're exactly right. People got to understand even though there's industry seems, it's a big industry, you see the money that is being made and so forth, but we are still I always say we're a startup inside of a startup.
And so there is so much more that needs to be learned and and understood. And we'll get to a point. Like you said, Kevin, whereas critical mass where, we're going to help lead that, that, that frontier of learning it there's a different way to shop, people such as yourselves are going to help with that message too.
I go, I tell people all the time, my favorite strain is only 14% CAC. But it's all about the terpenes and cannabinoids. I always tell people that at TAC you're always going to get high, whether it was 14%, 30%. But it's, those turpines would make you feel like, man, I'm so relaxed or I'm a film Phil.
So creative this because that's, what's really working. Are people
surprised when you.
Oh, yeah, a hundred percent. Some people are more tolerable than others where you tell them, they're just like, are you serious? Like I'm dead ass serious. But I could tell them where to grow.
If they're in Maryland, I can tell them what grower has. My particular strain that is. I love it to death. But it, for some it's easy for others. It's still hard for them to wrap their heads around because this culture has been built on how potent it is. And, it's slowly changing. Yeah.
The more the merrier for some people.
So the hot they correlate, the higher, the THC, the higher they'd like to be in. And right now it shows the inexperience in the consumer. But I think I'm with you a hundred percent. I think that'll change pretty drastically.
I also think it's really. Going to be a powerful force for the market as a whole, right?
Because we were talking about people going in and having a bad experience. Once they figure out the right way to go in and make these decisions, you're going to have re returning customers. You're going to have happier customers who then are going to spread the message and really help de-stigmatize the cannabis industry.
Yes.
Yeah. We're really, with the dad, we're going to go in a number of ways, we can really establish the first ranking system. You guys know there might be, I don't know, 600 people growing blue dream, but each 600 of those blue dreams are going to be inherently different.
And some of it is not even going to be blue dream at that.
We can use this data to show Kelly, your blue dream is solid an off the charts compared to the, my blue dream or Brian's blue dream is like a fast leader, a fast second, what is it about your genetics, your growing techniques that has given you that yield and that's making people receptive to it and aligning better with their endocannabinoid system.
Just really drilling it down to them electro level so that people step their game up or they get out of the industry.
It's such a game changer when people find the right product for a while, I was consuming, whatever I could get my hand on because here in New York it was harder, harder than it was.
And Kellen had sent me a care package during COVID and I like unlocked all these different products that, that sparked creativity. And it was such a, like an enlightening experience that I found things. Awesome. I could consume during the day I could feel creative. I could still process my work and I can only hope for others to find that, that enlightenment and I think with your app, people will be closer to that step because they'll have the ability to learn from others and understand that there are other products outside of just high THC that might be inflammation.
Yeah. I, right now I'm working on version two and version two is our flagship model. This MVP that we built, we built it in about five months. And version two, we've been working on for the last couple of the last year and a half, so we never stopped when version one went out, we went back to the drawing board, started on version two.
And I can't talk about all the goodies, we're going to make it so much easier for. I can share this so machine learning, right? As you start to log your sessions and attach a grant will actually tell you what products are meeting your needs, and then tell you what products are in your surrounding area based upon your geo that match your profile.
And a lot of great stuff coming, a lot of great stuff. I was
on my list of questions to ask because I mean that the recommendation machine based on the data. It's really going to be the key to unlocking some of these things. Because for me now I drive five or 10 minutes on the road for like the local dispenser.
But if I knew a product that wanted more was 45 minutes, I wouldn't even hesitate to go there because it's a completely different.
Yeah, exactly. And we we also are looking at like these delivery companies, but because that way the delivery companies are doing the consumer, just to just as much an injustice, that the dispensary's in the sense that you go to a delivery app and you say, all right, I want to buy X, Y, and Z products and have them delivered to me.
You don't, you didn't have that human exchange to understand what that product might be potentially good for. A lot of these delivery platforms don't have reviews on them after reviews are very generic. And with us being able to say Kellen, you like these products and you're on that delivery platform.
Why should you be presented with all these products that don't meet your needs? You should only be presented with products that match your profile so that you can make better choices. And just add more availability. What might be out there that fits your your tailored approach.
Is the lack of standardized product labels.
Is it state by state problem or is it a, like a global problem for Tetra gram when they're building out the next version of the.
Yeah, it's a global problem. It's very frustrating to know that like here in Maryland, I can correct provide that user experience through our application where that information is right there readily available.
But then if you go, I don't know, to Virginia, it's oh you can navigate through the app as effectively because you don't have that information. So it's really tough. And that's one of the things, if I had spare time, Starting a nonprofit called show me the T's and C's man.
And it's all about show me the terpene and cannabinoid so that we can elevate that voice or why this needs to be a standardized approach across the country. You're seeing COA is being pirated from other companies because they don't want to get it tested. And it's another way to validate who are creating products that are clean and tested as opposed to those who are.
And just piggybacking off of that. If you're in a state that doesn't have that information available and you log on a Tetra gram, you're probably looking for that information. The turpines and the other cannabinoids, and now you're frustrated cause you're like, I don't understand where this is and I don't understand why Tetra game's asking me for this.
And then it puts the consumer in a very weird situation of Hey, is it Tetra Graham's fault or is the dispensary salt? So then again, I guess it's more of like education. So how do we move that forward? Do you have an FAQ section on the side of saying Hey, this might not be available for all states.
Yeah. So that's something we'll definitely be tickling with moving forward, because we did it. When you build out technology, you build it. So that subconsciously the user is asking themselves those exact questions, like why is Tetregram asking us. Evidently this must be important information.
And then our goal through that, subconscious is for you to go to the dispensary Hey, they're asking this, why don't I have access to it? So at the end of the day, consumers drive anything. And so the more consumers that start there. For that COA or that testing information, the more of these companies are going to have to get on board and say, all right they're asking for, we got to start providing it, but we're version two.
We'll definitely be doing some things to say, this is why we're asking this question so that it helps people understand even more. Yeah,
that's like a mini, too many problems on a different level that I think most of even considered. So everything is harder. What is one challenge you found when building this hap that the average person wouldn't know about it?
Easily get it in on the app store and the Google play store. That was a nightmare. Just because, cannabis and now, you know what it was about a week ago, two weeks ago, apple was like, oh, we're open to cannabis apps on our store now. We went through that gauntlet, so you're welcome.
And. You know this to put it in reference. So apple took a, I want to say a couple, I want to say three months before we got approval to put it on the app store, as opposed to a Android being is open architecture, they were like two weeks or you're good. And you can get onto the store. One of the things that was beneficial to us is making sure that I touch a gram was HIPAA company.
Because again, I'm a patient, my two business partners of patients. So we take security extremely serious. And, we knew that we wanted that HIPAA compliant piece in there just to make people feel comfortable and utilizing the application. But, by far does getting it on to those platforms was it no small feat?
Was it, there are time
when you're going through the process, you thought, Hey, like they might not accept us because apple sometimes is flippy floppy with their policy. So I wasn't sure if going through this. Hey, we submitted everything. Is it just chronic cross your fingers, hope for the best or was there more.
Yeah. I've spent more money on lawyers than I've ever thought I'd ever dream of in my lifetime. And and that's what really, it boils down to is having the right team who can provide the right information the way that apple wants to see it. And so there was a little bit of skepticism is this going to happen?
But we did see that there were other companies who were doing something similar to us that were already on. So we knew it was a possibility. We just had to be. We have to be strategic and ready for whatever came our way. Just just to again, put it in context. Two weeks ago, a Tetra Graham was off the app store for about six days and that's because we had to do submit some additional information, renew our membership as some other stuff.
Six days. That's critical when you're talking about an app where so many people are trying to download it. And I didn't even find out until someone sent me an Instagram post and was like, I can't download it. What's happening. And the first thing I said was are you outside the U S they're like, no, I'm in New Jersey.
I'm like, damn. All right. You know what made us look into it and figure out what that issue.
Yeah. I can't even imagine how challenging it is to wake up and to realize that the app that is currently there is no longer available. And I guess that's apple just asking for a little grease, the wheels there, huh?
Yeah, exactly. Tell us a little bit more. We need an update, a little bit of a
check too, would be nice
and brown paper bag of money and no one
needs to know, just increase your storage space for your digital stuff, and we'll make that work real quick. We connected at MJ biz. And I want to talk about social equity and the diversity in the space as one of the leaders of one of the fastest growing industry.
What do you want to see? Some of the other is doing to help make more of an inclusion in this.
They're off to a pretty good start. They can always do more. And we talk to him when we were chatting at MJ biz con, like I'm going to MJ biz con every year for the last, five, six years with the exception for the hiccup of COVID.
And I got honestly say like when I first started going. There was a handful of people of color at that event with the texts, like 30,000. So it was this, it was disgusting to see. But it has been really refreshing to see Seattle last year we went, I'm just like, oh my God, like it's really blossomed.
And not only is that because more minorities, like we're getting into this regardless. But you are starting to see a lot more of social equity initiatives being taken by, like I can use clearly, for example, they had the rooted. Program. And so it's all about utilizing their resources as a minority, utilizing our resources because they understand, building a company is not cheap and some of these things that you need in order to do so these tools are very expensive and so clearly opens up their wallet and says, what is it that you need?
And then they work to try to get you whatever you need, so you could be successful. I haven't really seen it, that program. Replicated by other MSOE. So I think they're really a poster child on that. But we are starting to see MSOE, supporting with sponsorships and stuff like that, but, that's all fine and dandy, but it needs to go further.
Like you need to hire people, not at the entry level. You need to hire people who are come from different backgrounds and different ethnicities and put them into these VP and these director roles, because, it's all about. Having a team where everyone has a unique perspective so that this person is seeing something that person isn't seeing so that we can draw the best outcome possible.
Diversity breeds innovation to. I mean documented across every single company and all the studies I've read. And especially in an industry that has to change and adapt as quick as we do. You want the most diversity in
possible? Yeah, a hundred percent. I felt. By only being by they're only being 3% minorities in this space.
It's just disgusting because this industry was built off of minorities and instead of us being called MSOE, we were called pink pans. And let's be real. And that needs to change. And I think over time, as long as. People stay active on the issue. We have a chance here.
I think it was perfectly said, I just want to change the topic quick. I'm shocked. No, one's brought kingpin up as a company name because that's, that would have been a pretty one to partner off, but you said that and I was like, you're right, dude. I can't believe no. One's utilize that to kind of position.
You'd be taking a lot of the underground love and bring it to the forefront and people would recognize that pretty quickly and might lean on that. So I'm curious to know if someone hears that steals that from a branding standpoint, puts that on.
Yeah, it's got a funny, Brian. I just thought about it myself.
Damn, I don't think anybody's got a compliment
this thing in the second. And we've seen so many brand names where people lean on the legacy market and nobody's used that. So we might have to edit that part out and keep that just between the three
the two phone calls real
quick and downright
LLC
started
since you've been in the cannabinoid industry. What has been the biggest mistake?
The cannabis industry was the biggest misconception. And it was a bunch of I think the thing that, yeah, people think you can get into this industry and make money right away.
And the slide that is the biggest misconception. And I'm sorry, if someone comes to me and they say, I want to get into the synergy and the first thing that comes out of their mouth is I see this as a way to get rich quick, you have this downgraded yourself in terms of my eyes dramatically.
Because you look at people. This industry has a long history of injustice and there's a lot of people who have risked it all. Gone to jail, done. For growing this amazing plant that has such a, my decimal benefit. So when you get into this industry, you need to be one appreciative of people who have come before you and to understand have an intimate understanding of the value of this.
And so that's the biggest misconception that I feel is that people think they can get in and make money right away. I tell people like, have you heard of two 80 E all of these companies largest small, who are showing this money that they're bringing in. That money's coming in and it's gone right out the door to uncle Sam.
I think there's maybe only what a couple of companies, and those are the large Ms. Those are somewhat profitable, but those are very thin margins. So I think that's the thing that people need to understand that this is a industry where it's a long play and you had to be very passionate in order to be successful in it beautifully said
before we do predictions, we ask.
If you could sum up your experience in a main takeaway or lesson learned to pass onto the next generation, what would it be?
Don't try to reinvent the wheel understand what you're good at, what your skill set is that you've obtained through your career outside of cannabis and just apply it to this industry because this industry needs.
Everything. It's such an infant industry. You guys see it, you go to any convention, any network event, it's the same people talking every time. And that this goes to show you how much growth there is in this industry and how small it really is once you're in a network. So I just always see people who are like, Hey, I want to be a cultivator.
Have you ever grown even tomatoes? It's like even in your class, Exactly. I was like, you don't understand how complex this plan is and to grow it. It takes years of understanding. So again, don't try to do something you're not good at take what you're good at already and apply it to this industry.
And that's the only way you're really going to, not the only way, but it's gonna give you the highest probability rate of being successful.
I think that's so important. And for me, who's on the east coast for the longest time I was doing all the shows out on the west coast. Obviously the experience there and the educational levels, a little more advanced.
And then I did a few shows here on the east coast. And so many people had wide-eyed optimism about joining the industry, just based on experience, acts that they think translates and how quickly they think there'll be able to capture market share. And I almost felt bad being the pessimists and telling them it is so much harder than you ever even anticipated and the roadblocks and the challenges that you don't foresee are the ones that are actually going to cripple you.
And I felt terrible. Not sharing that information, but also wanting to share it because there's such this challenge of information, gap and limits placed on the industry itself. And I think the points that you've raised today are really critical. And I hope a lot of east coast listeners, take that as a main takeaway.
Yeah. These goes all day, baby hair, this beast coast. That's
right. I learned that recently. All right. Prediction time. Who is the most responsible for education in the cannabis space? Is it bud tenders, consumers or individuals like yourself?
I don't know. I'd like to say it's like all of the above. I could throw another one in there.
Cause you know, we all work together for the same thing. Which is to know more about this plant. I definitely, if I were to, if I had the pick, I would say. The cultivators, the MSO is the ones who are making these products because they're the ones who have had predominantly, most of them have had the mindset that let's just grow this product, this strain, this, make this package product and put it in the marketplace without doing any R and D because people love weed and Avaya regardless.
That is such a. It's such a disadvantage for everyone in the ecosystem. And they definitely have a lot of onus on those to me, have to lead that charge more than anyone else and do the R and D so that we can understand the impact of these products.
Kelly,
that's your great,
Hey,
I think right now the truth of the matter is.
The bartenders
are the ones
that have the most FaceTime,
I guess, with consumers. So that's where I would say most consumers are obtaining their information to make their decisions right now. But I think a lot of it honestly is on consumers. I think consumers have to be able to. Step off and understand that this industry is brand new, right?
Like you watched it become legal as a consumer. And so I think the responsibility is partially on the consumers to educate themselves. They don't
even, they
I'm going to say this again, but they don't even teach the endocannabinoid system in medical school. So you're going to be starting at the same.
Starting line as your doctor, when you're opening these conversations. If your doctor hasn't been investigated in the cannabis at all in his career. So I think it's a split right now between you need to be responsible for doing your own research and unfortunately, budtenders are going to. I would say colleague, but the majority of button budtenders are going to educate you to try to push a specific product which is just sales in general, right?
That's what their job is. So
what do you think Brian, I'm a hundred percent in agreement with you, Kellen. It's all on consumers, right? You walk into a dispensary, you're making the purchase. You're an adult. You need to understand what you're purchasing and. Tools like Tetra grant provide a valuable resource, but you need to use the resource in order to educate yourself, right?
Like you can help people and you can tell people here, enter this information. It's like a journaling system, so they can make recommendations. But if you don't utilize the app to its full function, You're missing piece of the puzzle and then you're left in the dark again.
So again, it's up to the consumer to understand, and to give themselves like a basic level of education, but then to utilize tools like you've built to help them succeed in the space. And yes, it's probably all the above, but at the end of the day, we're adults making adult decisions and it's up to the consumer in my opinion, to make that right.
Yeah. Yeah. You're a hundred percent, I agree now and I think about it even more so that's why we built it. Like you have to take the power and put it into your own hands. This was legal, then it'd be like, go to the doctor and you say, Hey doctor, my back is hurting.
Was it the doctor, dude? He's the one who makes his recommendation take this talent all, but he's the one journaling your experience. Next time you come back and he's asking you how that Tylenol felt given that we're in this illegal gray market when it comes to the legalities. You have to be the doctor in documentary use.
And think about it. Someone walks into a liquor store and they're like, yeah, I want booze. And they're like that's great. Like you're in the right store. Congratulations. What would you like? You don't mean and that's kinda what
I want to get high. And they're like, cool. So for
those that want to get in touch, they want to learn more. Where can they reach you and where can they download your app?
Absolutely. So the app can be downloaded on apple or Android at the Google play store, apple store. And it's the touch of Graham app. You can also find us on Instagram.
Instagram is the touch, the gram app. Facebook is the touch of Graham app. Twitter, since we had our Twitter account shut down, we had to redo that one. So it's app Tetra gram. This industry , we'll link them all up in the show notes. Yeah, out of his head and then anyone who wants to reach me personally, you'd rather do it through a website or, I'm always on LinkedIn.
Keep that page open everyday while I'm on the computer. Feel free to hit me up through that as well. Oh, T H a last name Smith. Thanks so much for your time. Thank you. No, thank you guys for having me. And this is a blast.